Comments for Hermeneutics Workshop http://www.hermeneuticsworkshop.com A liberal Anglican New Zealander reading holy scripture Tue, 04 May 2010 22:20:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 Comment on Hello world! by Howard http://www.hermeneuticsworkshop.com/hello-world-2/comment-page-1#comment-119 Howard Tue, 04 May 2010 22:20:19 +0000 http://www.hermeneuticsworkshop.com/?p=8#comment-119 Hello Mark, and thanks for your suggestion. I just took a quick look at that site, and as you say there is a lot that deserves a good response. However, I may not be the right person to do so, as my hermeneutic principles are clearly a long way away from Matt's. Unless there is a good deal of common ground, which I doubt, we would just end up talking past each other rather than in fruitful dialogue, which is my idea of a good blog. I could use some of his stuff as a contrasting position as I go along, where the differences are instructive. As you can see, I am having trouble making the time to set out my own stuff here! Hello Mark, and thanks for your suggestion. I just took a quick look at that site, and as you say there is a lot that deserves a good response. However, I may not be the right person to do so, as my hermeneutic principles are clearly a long way away from Matt’s. Unless there is a good deal of common ground, which I doubt, we would just end up talking past each other rather than in fruitful dialogue, which is my idea of a good blog. I could use some of his stuff as a contrasting position as I go along, where the differences are instructive.
As you can see, I am having trouble making the time to set out my own stuff here!

]]> Comment on Hello world! by Mark http://www.hermeneuticsworkshop.com/hello-world-2/comment-page-1#comment-118 Mark Tue, 04 May 2010 21:59:40 +0000 http://www.hermeneuticsworkshop.com/?p=8#comment-118 would you like to also tackle questions like this: http://www.carm.org/email-churches-women-pastors (Matt Slick has a lot of pages like this, that deserve a good response). would you like to also tackle questions like this: http://www.carm.org/email-churches-women-pastors (Matt Slick has a lot of pages like this, that deserve a good response).

]]> Comment on In Defence of Labels by Howard http://www.hermeneuticsworkshop.com/in-defence-of-labels/comment-page-1#comment-11 Howard Tue, 23 Mar 2010 07:07:37 +0000 http://hermeneuticsworkshop.com/?p=30#comment-11 Thanks to you both, Bosco and Peter. Advice is always needed and welcome when staring out on a new venture, including blogging. I will respond briefly to each of Bosco's three points. 1. Claiming a name without defining what it means for me would indeed invite others to align me with their prejudices. However, in the cases of "liberal" and "evangelical" I was doing two things intentionally: claiming two names that were already emotionally loaded for many people who use them as mutually exclusive, and then explaining why they each have very positive connotations for me. That is, I was giving readers my filter and challenging them to examine their own. If some choose to take no account of what I mean by these terms, they are probably not interested in attending to anything else I will go on to say either. 2. I agree entirely that "liberal", my key term, means different things in different contexts. I am not a liberal on every social, moral or theological issue, (only on most!). So any opponent who starts an argument by asserting "You liberals think X, Y and Z" then requires me to defend some straw man they have erected for easy demolition has to be challenged to listen to what I do believe, from my own mouth rather than by transference from someone else who claims the same label. That aspect of dialogue is not too hard to manage. None of this outweighs the main benefit of claiming the label ... I am putting it out there in public so that people can expect me to set out a defence of a "liberal" position on the matter of sexuality. Peter and others have been calling for a more explicit theological rationale from those who believe that the church should be more permissive/accepting/="liberal" towards the place of LGBT people in the Anglican church. My purpose on this blog is to identify myself as one advocating this current change of policy and willing to reflect publicly on its theological roots and implications. Within this particular context, I do not think there is much room for misunderstanding what "liberal"means. 3. Peter has it in a nutshell - I am currently exercising my priesthood as an Anglican in the New Zealand context. I do not expect that context to change much at my time of life, and when I travel overseas am content to merge into the wider life of the Church of God without claiming an particular status or role. Experiencing French Catholicism twice in recent years as an unknown pilgrim, not Father Pilgrim, was a process of transformation and renewal. If I ever get to Rome, I would look for nothing different. Prague and Estonia? Not on my busy itinerary so far. Thanks to you both, Bosco and Peter. Advice is always needed and welcome when staring out on a new venture, including blogging. I will respond briefly to each of Bosco’s three points.
1. Claiming a name without defining what it means for me would indeed invite others to align me with their prejudices. However, in the cases of “liberal” and “evangelical” I was doing two things intentionally: claiming two names that were already emotionally loaded for many people who use them as mutually exclusive, and then explaining why they each have very positive connotations for me. That is, I was giving readers my filter and challenging them to examine their own. If some choose to take no account of what I mean by these terms, they are probably not interested in attending to anything else I will go on to say either.
2. I agree entirely that “liberal”, my key term, means different things in different contexts. I am not a liberal on every social, moral or theological issue, (only on most!). So any opponent who starts an argument by asserting “You liberals think X, Y and Z” then requires me to defend some straw man they have erected for easy demolition has to be challenged to listen to what I do believe, from my own mouth rather than by transference from someone else who claims the same label. That aspect of dialogue is not too hard to manage. None of this outweighs the main benefit of claiming the label … I am putting it out there in public so that people can expect me to set out a defence of a “liberal” position on the matter of sexuality. Peter and others have been calling for a more explicit theological rationale from those who believe that the church should be more permissive/accepting/=”liberal” towards the place of LGBT people in the Anglican church. My purpose on this blog is to identify myself as one advocating this current change of policy and willing to reflect publicly on its theological roots and implications. Within this particular context, I do not think there is much room for misunderstanding what “liberal”means.
3. Peter has it in a nutshell – I am currently exercising my priesthood as an Anglican in the New Zealand context. I do not expect that context to change much at my time of life, and when I travel overseas am content to merge into the wider life of the Church of God without claiming an particular status or role. Experiencing French Catholicism twice in recent years as an unknown pilgrim, not Father Pilgrim, was a process of transformation and renewal. If I ever get to Rome, I would look for nothing different. Prague and Estonia? Not on my busy itinerary so far.

]]> Comment on In Defence of Labels by Peter Carrell http://www.hermeneuticsworkshop.com/in-defence-of-labels/comment-page-1#comment-10 Peter Carrell Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:17:21 +0000 http://hermeneuticsworkshop.com/?p=30#comment-10 Well made points, Bosco. But I do not think when Howard finds himself studying in Rome he will any time soon ministering as a priest within the Roman Catholic church! Well made points, Bosco. But I do not think when Howard finds himself studying in Rome he will any time soon ministering as a priest within the Roman Catholic church!

]]> Comment on In Defence of Labels by Bosco Peters http://www.hermeneuticsworkshop.com/in-defence-of-labels/comment-page-1#comment-9 Bosco Peters Thu, 18 Mar 2010 04:45:06 +0000 http://hermeneuticsworkshop.com/?p=30#comment-9 I’m OK, really Howard, about your defining the five sides of the box in which you wish to sit, but as I read your points, several others spring to my mind. 1) By defining your box, others can easily mishear and pre-judge your position, filtering what you are saying through the lenses of a misunderstood interpretation of your categories. Sadly even, as an example, when I call myself a Christian, others have now so twisted that understanding in popular culture, that I have to spend more energy distancing myself from the popularly misunderstood interpretation before I can start to make the positive contribution that I believe Christianity actually brings. And I assure you, that for some, whatever I say, will continue to be filtered through the now often majority misuse of that term. 2) I do not think that the boxes are as neat as you imply. In our post-modern world we all pick and choose in the cafeteria of spirituality and ethics. You may be “liberal” in sexuality, but balk at a “liberal” position in some other area. I would prefer persons to debate things issue by issue, and have the freedom to move between the old party distinctions which I think have passed their use-by date. 3) You may regard yourself as a priest of the Anglican Church, but our ordinal regards you as a priest in something much larger: “a priest in the Church of God”. I would suggest that if you were spending a lengthy time studying in Prague, you would minister as a priest within the Old Catholic Church, if you were to take up residency in Estonia for a while, you would minister within The Estonian Evangelical Lutheran Church. The main thing is: let’s read your position, and discuss your ideas – point by point, and let your self-definitions enhance and clarify your points, not distract from and confuse them. Thanks for starting the conversation. Blessings Bosco+ www.liturgy.co.nz I’m OK, really Howard, about your defining the five sides of the box in which you wish to sit, but as I read your points, several others spring to my mind.
1) By defining your box, others can easily mishear and pre-judge your position, filtering what you are saying through the lenses of a misunderstood interpretation of your categories. Sadly even, as an example, when I call myself a Christian, others have now so twisted that understanding in popular culture, that I have to spend more energy distancing myself from the popularly misunderstood interpretation before I can start to make the positive contribution that I believe Christianity actually brings. And I assure you, that for some, whatever I say, will continue to be filtered through the now often majority misuse of that term.
2) I do not think that the boxes are as neat as you imply. In our post-modern world we all pick and choose in the cafeteria of spirituality and ethics. You may be “liberal” in sexuality, but balk at a “liberal” position in some other area. I would prefer persons to debate things issue by issue, and have the freedom to move between the old party distinctions which I think have passed their use-by date.
3) You may regard yourself as a priest of the Anglican Church, but our ordinal regards you as a priest in something much larger: “a priest in the Church of God”. I would suggest that if you were spending a lengthy time studying in Prague, you would minister as a priest within the Old Catholic Church, if you were to take up residency in Estonia for a while, you would minister within The Estonian Evangelical Lutheran Church.

The main thing is: let’s read your position, and discuss your ideas – point by point, and let your self-definitions enhance and clarify your points, not distract from and confuse them. Thanks for starting the conversation.

Blessings

Bosco+
http://www.liturgy.co.nz

]]> Comment on Hello world! by Howard http://www.hermeneuticsworkshop.com/hello-world-2/comment-page-1#comment-8 Howard Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:52:52 +0000 http://www.hermeneuticsworkshop.com/?p=8#comment-8 Thanks Bosco. Ill check it out again and comment on your site. Thanks Bosco. Ill check it out again and comment on your site.

]]> Comment on Hello world! by Bosco Peters http://www.hermeneuticsworkshop.com/hello-world-2/comment-page-1#comment-7 Bosco Peters Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:28:41 +0000 http://www.hermeneuticsworkshop.com/?p=8#comment-7 Howard, I don't know if you are receiving or checking updates from my post about your site, but I again, this morning, received a comment that your site just shows an "under construction" sign to a reader. Howard, I don’t know if you are receiving or checking updates from my post about your site, but I again, this morning, received a comment that your site just shows an “under construction” sign to a reader.

]]> Comment on Hello world! by Bosco Peters http://www.hermeneuticsworkshop.com/hello-world-2/comment-page-1#comment-6 Bosco Peters Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:20:19 +0000 http://www.hermeneuticsworkshop.com/?p=8#comment-6 Howard, if you are following the discussion on my site, especially at http://www.liturgy.co.nz/blog/kiwi-blogging/2666 you will notice some of my followers appear not to be able to access this site. Howard, if you are following the discussion on my site, especially at http://www.liturgy.co.nz/blog/kiwi-blogging/2666 you will notice some of my followers appear not to be able to access this site.

]]> Comment on Hello world! by Kath Williamson http://www.hermeneuticsworkshop.com/hello-world-2/comment-page-1#comment-5 Kath Williamson Sat, 13 Mar 2010 12:18:12 +0000 http://www.hermeneuticsworkshop.com/?p=8#comment-5 Welcome Howard to the blogosphere. I am an English, Anglical, liberal, ex-evangelical scholar - perhaps veering more towards subjects on spirituality and prayer rather than straight Biblical hermeneutics. I look forward to reading your material. Kath Welcome Howard to the blogosphere. I am an English, Anglical, liberal, ex-evangelical scholar – perhaps veering more towards subjects on spirituality and prayer rather than straight Biblical hermeneutics.

I look forward to reading your material.

Kath

]]> Comment on Hello world! by Bosco Peters http://www.hermeneuticsworkshop.com/hello-world-2/comment-page-1#comment-4 Bosco Peters Sat, 13 Mar 2010 04:28:58 +0000 http://www.hermeneuticsworkshop.com/?p=8#comment-4 Blessings on your new venture, Howard, I have announced it here: http://www.liturgy.co.nz/blog/kiwi-blogging/2666 and on twitter Bosco Blessings on your new venture, Howard,
I have announced it here:
http://www.liturgy.co.nz/blog/kiwi-blogging/2666
and on twitter

Bosco

]]>